WIN Woman Spotlight: Emily Dickens
Our ongoing WIN Woman Spotlight series showcases leaders from across the country/world who embrace the skill of negotiation and advocacy to break down barriers for women: women who are champions for female empowerment within her organization and/or in her personal life. From industry leaders to career coaches to champions for change, our spotlights have highlighted them all.
Today, we’re featuring Emily Dickens, Chief of Staff, Head of Government Affairs and Corporate Secretary for SHRM (Society for Human Resource Management), and a reoccurring speaker at WIN Summit.
Emily M. Dickens is Chief of Staff, Head of Government Affairs and Corporate Secretary for SHRM, the Society for Human Resource Management. A member of the executive team, Emily has responsibility for implementing the CEO's vision, corporate governance, global outreach, government affairs, and the organization’s buildings and property. She serves on the executive board of the North America Human Resource Management Association (NAHRMA) and is Secretary-General of the World Federation of People Management Associations (WFPMA).
Watch the video above or read the transcript from the interview below.
The interview transcript:
Daniella Kahane: Hello, everybody. Welcome to HerWin with WIN, which is Women in Negotiation. I am Daniela Kahana, Co-founder and CEO of WIN, and I'm so pleased to be here today with Emily Dickens. Emily is a repeated featured speaker at WIN Summit, which is our connection, but she is in her day-to-day Chief of Staff, Head of Government Affairs and Corporate Secretary for SHRM, and she's an executive team member and an incredible human being. So, Emily, I'm so happy to have you here on our HerWin series.
For those of you who don't know, HerWin is a way for WIN to spotlight a woman in our network who we admire and who's wielding the power of negotiation in her life, not just to lift herself up, but to lift women all around her as well. Ultimately, it's an opportunity for our audience to connect to women across an array of industries and to get to know her better. So, now that I've introduced you, can you tell us something about yourself that we might not know from your title?
Emily Dickens: I am a huge sports fan and actually wanted to be an entertainment and sports executive.
Daniella: Okay, well, I am the opposite.I am so ignorant when it comes to sports, so we have to talk and you can educate me, because it is definitely a gaping hole in my knowledge.
Emily: You know, I'm one of three girls, and so my dad made sure we knew. I grew up in New York so, look, Mets, Yankees. Remember, he read the New York Daily News from back to front because sports page is on the back, so that's where we started because he made us read the paper to him every day. And so, as a result, I became a huge sports fan and even was a team manager for our high school basketball team. So, I traveled with the men's basketball team and kept track of the scores and had to call in the scores at the end of the game and all of that. So, yes, I was all in with all of that with sports.
Daniella: Love that, and I have three girls and my husband is definitely grooming them to be more interested in sports than I am. So, is it safe to say that if you weren't doing what you're doing, you would be a sports agent?
Emily: You know, now that I know more about the industry, I would probably be someone that worked for a team and not in a mid-market because of the challenge of getting our space. I think about Indiana Pacers, you know, because New York is going to be New York, LA is going to be LA, right? But the opportunity to work somewhere where you've got to fight for your market share every day and it's always you against them, I love that challenge. And maybe not even in basketball, I love the ball, and I know hockey well, so there is, baseball, that's exactly what we started with. So, in any sport, just being able to be around that competition daily, it fuels you.
Daniella: Okay, you've obviously given this a lot of thought. That's amazing. Well, tell us about yourself in terms of what you are doing on a day-to-day basis.
Emily: Well, I am privileged to work for a 75-year-old organization, SHRM, that has at its heart the intent to elevate HR and HR professionals. And you know this about me career-wise, I worked in higher ed for a very long time. And my goal then was to provide access to higher education for those who normally wouldn't have access. And so, I was a lobbyist. I worked at an HBCU, I worked at a university system, and then ultimately worked for an organization that was responsible for governance of institutions of higher education. So, I'm very passionate about that. And when the opportunity to go to SHRM arose, I had one of those moments where I thought, what would be my purpose there? What could I add? Because at least I could always account and say my efforts on a piece of legislation were something that got more students access to a seat in a college classroom. What could I do at SHRM that would really be mission-focused?
And shortly after getting there, I realized HR professionals are sitting in a unique place of being a catalyst for our lives and livelihoods. The HR professional who recommends you for professional development opportunity, who hires you because they see something in you even though you may not have all the skills for a role, who disciplines you to some extent and gives you feedback when there are something that you could do better. The one that tells you that you have now gotten an increase, which will allow you financially to now provide your daughter or your son with access to a four or five-star daycare, as opposed to a one or two-star. So, if you really look at just the span and spectrum of work that HR professionals do, they elevate lives and livelihoods every day. And they need someone to elevate their voice so that people who are making policy that relates to how they do their jobs understand how to do so in a manner that doesn't become burdensome, so they can continue to help employees everywhere.
Daniella: Incredible. What are three adjectives that would describe you best?
Emily: Unconventional is one. The other one is direct. You know, I'm a New Yorker, so I'm always going to be that. And then, I would say loyal.
Daniella: Amazing. I definitely feel all of those three from how I know you. So, you have been a repeated, as I mentioned earlier, speaker, a featured speaker at Wind Summit, and SHRM has been a sponsor and a partner, an incredible partner, and we're so grateful for the continued partnership. What excites you about WIN Summit?
Emily: Anytime you can get people together around a common goal, I'm excited. And then, put on top of that, women who are at all phases of their lives looking to elevate themselves in some way, and are open to networking and meeting other women who are just amazing. I can't remember how we met, which is so corny, Daniella, but I remember, people remember how you make them feel. And I remember being welcomed at each in-person event that you've had, at each of the virtual events that you've had, and you've had to figure it out during a time when everybody else had to figure it out. I remember when we do touch base calls. All of that is because of WIN. And then, being able to introduce the people who I love and adore, the women in my life who I look up to, to WIN, and giving them that experience of being around other women, it's such a positive experience, and it's a one day, so that's great, because we all have limited time. And it's an opportunity for you to be a little selfish as well.
When you talk about negotiating, you're negotiating for something that's important to you. So, you're being as selfish as you can, and you have the right to do so, which I think we don't often choose ourselves when we need to. So, this is an opportunity to get the skills to choose yourself.
Daniella: So true. So, on that note, obviously, WIN focuses around negotiation as a tool of empowerment. How do you feel about negotiation?
Emily: I can't stand it, and I'm a lawyer, right? I feel like: you should know, I shouldn't have to have this conversation, right? But I understand it's a necessary evil, and it's an opportunity to educate the person on the other side of the table about what's important to you, because their experience with you and that set of negotiations will give them a skill set and an insight to things that, in that next negotiation, won't be new to them. It could be something they expected, and that woman, that man on the other side of the table, won't have to ask for it, because the person will know this is something that could be important to them.
Daniella: Absolutely. So, we like to say that everything in life is a negotiation. And when you talk about negotiation, you teach negotiation all the time, you start to see things through negotiation-colored lenses. But, of course, there are non-negotiables in life. And so, what would one non-negotiable be for you?
Emily: I've been thinking about this for a few days, like, literally, this was the question that stumped me. And isn't because I don't want to sound like that person, but, you know, the one thing is, when you set in your mind what you think your value is, and it's done. Later on, and there's another question we'll talk about - “what's the, you know, the tip that I would give,” is when you (8:52) set your mind on a number or a range, based on what you think what the market says, and your research about what that number is, I think, do the work, you should be willing, you should be able to say, this is it, this is the number for me. But again, as I'll talk about later on, you got to do the work. So, when you've done the work to get to that number for me, I think then you got to say, there's a range I'm willing to go. And if it's outside that range, we clearly don't see the same monetary value. And it's crazy, because I'm the person to tell you, look at the whole compensation, which you should. But I know we have a certain window for earning potential. And you want to make sure that if that's the thing that's important to you. So, for me, it is once I've settled on a range for that number, based on good research and data, that would be the thing I would budge on. I wouldn't budge on.
Daniella: Tell us about a time that you've failed, in an institution or in life.
Emily: So, look, I'll market it to a bad negotiation, right? And the tip is knowing when and what to negotiate. I'm a big proponent of stretch assignments. And most of my career, I've been able to move because I've taken on a stretch assignment, succeeded, and then gotten an opportunity. So, I took on a stretch assignment. And for the first time, again, listening to people who don't know the space, I took it on, and said yes. And then I let some people get in my ear saying, “oh, well, you should be getting paid for this, right?” But I knew better. I knew that really when you're given a stretch assignment, it's an opportunity to perform and that the bonus comes on the end once you perform because it's either in a form of promotion and money or just the money saying, “look, you've done this good job.” And so, I made the mistake of saying to my boss at the time, “now you've given me this stretch assignment, let's talk compensation.” And he absolutely shut me down and he said, absolutely not. And we went on to the rest of the discussion. Later on, he came back to me and he said, “Look, I want you to think about it. I'm giving you an opportunity to show me you can do this job. But also, I feel like I'm somebody that you could trust and that I wouldn't put you in a role you couldn't do. And on the back end, you will be compensated for this. But you got to know when to ask that question about it.” And that was a mistake I won't make again.
Daniella: So true. Timing is so critical in negotiation. So we, in addition to talking about our vulnerabilities and perhaps our failures, which we all have, we like to celebrate each other's wins. So let's pause for a moment. Can you share a recent or not recent win that you're particularly proud of?
Emily: So you remember you asked me the three adjectives and I led with unconventional. I got here in the most unconventional way today as an executive on a C-suite, in your NC suite, on the team. I mean, I'm doing what I'm doing. And so I had this moment a few years ago when I was appointed a trustee at my Alma Mater. Now, why is that a big deal? It's a state university. It's a big deal because my mother and I took a Greyhound from New York City to Durham, North Carolina to drop me off at college. So, I had this moment where I thought: I came from that moment where she had to drop me off. She had then kissed me goodbye. I'm in tears. She gets right back on the bus to go right back to New York alone. My parents at the time were being evicted from their home. The one thing that she left me with is: “Your job is to not worry about what's going on back there. It is to focus on this opportunity.” And if you think about it, your first generation. I got there because somebody gave me a scholarship from church. I was in debutante ball, all these things pieced together. My godmother wrote a check on her Discovery card, but all these things, this village that made sure I got there and I had one job: it was to graduate on time. And the fact that my mother is still alive and was able to be here in that moment: when I was appointed as a trustee. By a member of the state legislature, so I’m that type of appointee or political appointee to my board of trustees of the Alma Mater, the school where I graduated and love. It was a full-circle moment for me.
Daniella: Within a generation, right? Within one human, which is so remarkable.
Emily: It is. It is.
Daniella: You must have been very proud. That's amazing. Well, final question. So this year's theme of WIN is “ The Power To”, which we are excited about because it's positive, it's empowering, and it's intentionally ambiguous. Everybody feels differently about what they need to lean into when it comes to their power or what they want to yield more of. So what is one thing you're bringing your power to in 2024?
Emily: I've gone over this a couple of times because I've built in that line with a few things, the power to choose me. You get to a certain point in your career where you're doing things, especially if you're a people manager, to please this person above you and those who are reporting to you. And you are in the middle here. And what COVID has shown and said is that executives and bosses have to be more empathetic. But I feel like we've been forced to go overboard with our empathy and no one has empathy for us right there in the middle.
And so I am taking back my space. I am choosing me. And I'm requiring those who are also in this sandwich with me to figure out a way to consider me in this story and not just their individual wants in me. So it's all about the power to choose me for the rest of the year.
Daniella: That is very, very resonating with a lot of women who put themselves last. So, thank you for leading with that. And thank you for your time on Her WIN today. Great to see you as always, Emily. And we can't wait to see you at WIN Summit on May 30th.
Emily: I am looking forward to it. And this is going to be an amazing year for you. Thank you.
Daniella: Thank you. Take care. We'll see you soon.
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